When America's Most Prominent Socialist Was Jailed for Speaking Out Against World War I | History| Smithsonian Magazine

Fighting for democracy in the world and silencing free speech at home. Hypocrisy of the highest order. Think it doesn’t happen here? Think again.

"As Ben Franklin wrote

“Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

“Without freedom of thought there can be no such thing as wisdom; and no such thing as public liberty, without freedom of speech.”

“Freedom of speech is a principal pillar of a free government; when this support is taken away, the constitution of a free society is dissolved, and tyranny is erected on its ruins. Republics…derive their strength and vigor from a popular examination into the action of the magistrates.”

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As I posted on another string, every major war that the US has been involved in except WWII has had a significant anti-war movement.

WWI had the Creel Committee to spin the war against its opposition.

Henry David Thoreau was imprisoned for protesting the Mexican War.

And the Vietnam protests (take notice Top 25 and NRCoog) were nothing compared to the Civil War draft riots that resulted in THOUSANDS of casualties.

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Acknowledged on casualties; on scale and length of protests, nothing comes close to Vietnam protests and demonstrations. Over a decade of protests. Millions involved. Other countries involved. Take note indeed and acknowledge.

Vietnam protests from 1963 ( maybe even 1945 !) to 1973. That’s 11 years. How long was the civil
war again…uh a mere 4 years !

Just read.

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THIS is a protest!

Not true Law, the parts with the black folks, were street thugs rioting and terrorizing. The parts with the white folks… legitimate political discourse.

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When people feel as if there grievances aren’t being addressed this is a possibility. you’ll get a demagogue ie…a Trump who will use by it for personal political gain and power. This society is on edge, they know something is not right. What is it, is the great question of the times.

Gang,

Actually, this is about the best historical rundown of the 1863 riots I’ve found.

BigCat,

Someone always has a grievance…real or imagined…it doesn’t mean that you should riot. That goes for the rioters in 1863…on January 6th…and other times. In both cases…the rioters were on the wrong side of history.

Bryant,

The Republican Party looked like a bunch of morons for calling Jan 6th “legitimate political discourse.” It was indeed an armed, violent insurrection. And regardless of whether or not Trump had any legal responsibility for what happened on Jan. 6th, I’m a firm believer that he was morally responsible for it for peddling the lie that the election was fraudulent or stolen and/or that he was robbed; that fires people up, and for not denouncing the extremist thugs (Proud Boys, QAnon, etc) that helped orchestrate the event, even when prompted to during debates. That just encourages thuggery.

To understand is not to condone. Believe in non-violence. I believe in a holistic approach to medicine must understand the cause of the disease to provide a true cure.

“Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.”

Ben Franklin

This is why I remain steadfast that our military should be made up with drafted citizens, no one with a deferment. It would make going to war more unpopular when everyone has skin in the game.

Having a draft in Russia sure as Hell didn’t stop Putin in Ukraine.

On the contrary, it made it easier for him to pull off.

That’s a new one. Usually you go for the need to have professional soldier class.

Did you see the speech he gave to the Russian people telling them the conscripts. Weren’t doing the battling is was the professional soldier who were. Of course it’s a a lie by him. But it shows you how political sensitive he is to the optics of young soldiers dying who never volunteered to be there in the first place

I’m simply debunking your argument that a draft would make a war less likely.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. History (including recent and current events) shows that that’s crap.

A draft simply makes it easier to pull off or escalate a contentious or unpopular war by providing a fresh, ready supply of bodies…people who can be FORCED to fight.

Case in point: Russia under Putin in Ukraine.

I haven’t seen that, but I’m not surprised that he’d lie about something like that.

Pretty soon, word is going to get around that that’s a lie.

We’ll see if the population does anything in response. So far, I see protests, but not enough to make a difference.